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	<title>Comments on: On The Belhar Confession</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mike.hostetlerhome.com/2007/04/01/on-the-belhar-confession/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mike.hostetlerhome.com/2007/04/01/on-the-belhar-confession/</link>
	<description>Thoughts and rants on life, technology, church and other events</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dave Watson</title>
		<link>http://mike.hostetlerhome.com/2007/04/01/on-the-belhar-confession/#comment-4862</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mike.hostetlerhome.com/2007/04/01/on-the-belhar-confession/#comment-4862</guid>
		<description>For anyone (especially in the CRC) who wants to learn more about the Belhar Confession, check out

belhar.blogspot.com

Some of us have some reservations about adding it as a Fourth Standard of Unity.  The concerns about racism are valid, for sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For anyone (especially in the CRC) who wants to learn more about the Belhar Confession, check out</p>
<p>belhar.blogspot.com</p>
<p>Some of us have some reservations about adding it as a Fourth Standard of Unity.  The concerns about racism are valid, for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://mike.hostetlerhome.com/2007/04/01/on-the-belhar-confession/#comment-1731</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2007 22:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mike.hostetlerhome.com/2007/04/01/on-the-belhar-confession/#comment-1731</guid>
		<description>Nubi,

You make some great points and none I totally disagree with.  The Belhar Confession doesn't say anything that hasn't been said before, but it does say it in a different way, with a different focus.

I'm not sure that I would use the word "successor" -- how about Supplement to the Big Three?  And I don't agree that the issues it focuses on are contemporary.  The only thing that is contemporary about is that we have only recently figured out that we have problems in these areas.   The problems are as old as Western Civilization.

I think the CRC is taking these concepts seriously.  Whether they will adopt the words as well as deeds remains to be seen.  I support the adaptation of Belhar, but I support the actions of it more than the words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nubi,</p>
<p>You make some great points and none I totally disagree with.  The Belhar Confession doesn&#8217;t say anything that hasn&#8217;t been said before, but it does say it in a different way, with a different focus.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that I would use the word &#8220;successor&#8221; &#8212; how about Supplement to the Big Three?  And I don&#8217;t agree that the issues it focuses on are contemporary.  The only thing that is contemporary about is that we have only recently figured out that we have problems in these areas.   The problems are as old as Western Civilization.</p>
<p>I think the CRC is taking these concepts seriously.  Whether they will adopt the words as well as deeds remains to be seen.  I support the adaptation of Belhar, but I support the actions of it more than the words.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nubi</title>
		<link>http://mike.hostetlerhome.com/2007/04/01/on-the-belhar-confession/#comment-1727</link>
		<dc:creator>Nubi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2007 20:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mike.hostetlerhome.com/2007/04/01/on-the-belhar-confession/#comment-1727</guid>
		<description>Hrm...

Seems to me to be a lazy way of affirming what your Three Forms already spell out in adequate detail. To me, stepping into the adoption of Confessions in response to contemporary social issues is not to be prefered. This 'new' Confession really doesn't, as you point out, add anything at all to your current documents of Polity.

In fact, I would argue that rather, it dilutes them. It's like a 'Cliff Notes' guide to your other documents. Sure, I can see why it would be wise in S.A. to have reaffirm the truths of the Confessions as sumarized in Belhar, but I don't know if I can agree that it is needed nor wise to adopt it as a 4th leg of the Confessional stool.

Australia is not America, but there, the 'Dutch' Reformed Church lives and dies by the not dutch - not much mindset. I've been to more than one service where folks around me have broken into Dutch leaving me to become minutely interested in the patina of the pew ahead of me.

Is there room for a better understanding that 'ghettoism' and exclusivity is not in the will of God? Yes, indeed. Does the denomination have a means within her grasp to effect this better understanding? Yes, she does. 

Heidelberg Confession
54. Q. What do you believe concerning the holy catholic Christian church?

A. I believe that the Son of God,[1] out of the whole human race,[2] from the beginning of the world to its end,[3] gathers, defends, and preserves for Himself, [4] by His Spirit and Word,[5] in the unity of the true faith,[6] a church chosen to everlasting life.[7] And I believe that I am[8] and forever shall remain a living member of it.[9]

[1] John 10:11; Acts 20:28; Eph. 4:11-13; Col. 1:18. [2] Gen. 26:4; Rev. 5:9. [3] Is. 59:21; I Cor. 11:26. [4] Ps. 129:1-5; Matt. 16:18; John 10:28-30. [5] Rom. 1:16; 10:14-17; Eph. 5:26. [6] Acts 2:42-47; Eph. 4:1-6. [7] Rom. 8:29; Eph. 1:3-14. [8] I John 3:14, 19-21. [9] Ps. 23:6; John 10:27, 28; I Cor. 1:4-9; I Pet. 1:3-5. 


55. Q. What do you understand by the communion of saints?

A. First, that believers, all and everyone, as members of Christ have communion with Him and share in all His treasures and gifts.[1] Second, that everyone is duty-bound to use his gifts readily and cheerfully for the benefit and well-being of the other members.[2]

[1] Rom. 8:32; I Cor. 6:17; 12:4-7, 12, 13; I John 1:3. [2] Rom. 12:4-8; I Cor. 12:20-27; 13:1-7; Phil. 2:4-8.

Does Belhar add anything of consequence to these two questions? No, it does not. I merely expands and unpacks them and, to my mind, that's no way to adopt a Confession.

Adding a document the world will not read nor have heard of will not show it that you honor everyone in the kingdom and will stand up for justice. Rather, honoring everyone in the kingdom and standing for justice will show that you honor everyone in the kingdom and stand for justice. 

Endorsement of Belhar as a worthy restatement of the truthes long held? Amen.
Adoption of Belhar as a worthy successor to the Historic Confessions? Why bother?

- The curmudgeonly Presbyterian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hrm&#8230;</p>
<p>Seems to me to be a lazy way of affirming what your Three Forms already spell out in adequate detail. To me, stepping into the adoption of Confessions in response to contemporary social issues is not to be prefered. This &#8216;new&#8217; Confession really doesn&#8217;t, as you point out, add anything at all to your current documents of Polity.</p>
<p>In fact, I would argue that rather, it dilutes them. It&#8217;s like a &#8216;Cliff Notes&#8217; guide to your other documents. Sure, I can see why it would be wise in S.A. to have reaffirm the truths of the Confessions as sumarized in Belhar, but I don&#8217;t know if I can agree that it is needed nor wise to adopt it as a 4th leg of the Confessional stool.</p>
<p>Australia is not America, but there, the &#8216;Dutch&#8217; Reformed Church lives and dies by the not dutch - not much mindset. I&#8217;ve been to more than one service where folks around me have broken into Dutch leaving me to become minutely interested in the patina of the pew ahead of me.</p>
<p>Is there room for a better understanding that &#8216;ghettoism&#8217; and exclusivity is not in the will of God? Yes, indeed. Does the denomination have a means within her grasp to effect this better understanding? Yes, she does. </p>
<p>Heidelberg Confession<br />
54. Q. What do you believe concerning the holy catholic Christian church?</p>
<p>A. I believe that the Son of God,[1] out of the whole human race,[2] from the beginning of the world to its end,[3] gathers, defends, and preserves for Himself, [4] by His Spirit and Word,[5] in the unity of the true faith,[6] a church chosen to everlasting life.[7] And I believe that I am[8] and forever shall remain a living member of it.[9]</p>
<p>[1] John 10:11; Acts 20:28; Eph. 4:11-13; Col. 1:18. [2] Gen. 26:4; Rev. 5:9. [3] Is. 59:21; I Cor. 11:26. [4] Ps. 129:1-5; Matt. 16:18; John 10:28-30. [5] Rom. 1:16; 10:14-17; Eph. 5:26. [6] Acts 2:42-47; Eph. 4:1-6. [7] Rom. 8:29; Eph. 1:3-14. [8] I John 3:14, 19-21. [9] Ps. 23:6; John 10:27, 28; I Cor. 1:4-9; I Pet. 1:3-5. </p>
<ol>
<li>Q. What do you understand by the communion of saints?</li>
</ol>
<p>A. First, that believers, all and everyone, as members of Christ have communion with Him and share in all His treasures and gifts.[1] Second, that everyone is duty-bound to use his gifts readily and cheerfully for the benefit and well-being of the other members.[2]</p>
<p>[1] Rom. 8:32; I Cor. 6:17; 12:4-7, 12, 13; I John 1:3. [2] Rom. 12:4-8; I Cor. 12:20-27; 13:1-7; Phil. 2:4-8.</p>
<p>Does Belhar add anything of consequence to these two questions? No, it does not. I merely expands and unpacks them and, to my mind, that&#8217;s no way to adopt a Confession.</p>
<p>Adding a document the world will not read nor have heard of will not show it that you honor everyone in the kingdom and will stand up for justice. Rather, honoring everyone in the kingdom and standing for justice will show that you honor everyone in the kingdom and stand for justice. </p>
<p>Endorsement of Belhar as a worthy restatement of the truthes long held? Amen.<br />
Adoption of Belhar as a worthy successor to the Historic Confessions? Why bother?</p>
<ul>
<li>The curmudgeonly Presbyterian</li>
</ul>
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